One of the main things that ends relationships is obviously infidelity. However, most times it is one member of the relationship finding out about the other's cheating. In "Beloved" Paul D cheats on Sethe with Beloved (the ghost, who is also Sethe's daughter). This is another part of the story where the difficulty of telling the truth becomes apparent. Why do you think many times the person who is cheating stays with or tries to hide their actions from the other person? Why would Paul D hide this from Sethe and why does he leave? Is this considered lying through omission? What role does lying through omission play in cheating?
Similarly to cheating there is much incentive to hide the truth with physical abuse. Whether it is a child being abused by an adult or abuse happening in a relationship. Sometimes a child may not realize they are not doing anything to deserve the abuse, but in the case of a relationship both parties are aware but often still hide it together from the outside world. Is lying through omission on this topic condoning the abuse? Why would one want to hide abuse within a relationship?
In the book we also saw the situation where Sethe never told Paul D about killing her baby in the woodshed when Schoolteacher arrived in town. Because of this, Paul D could never know he had sex with the human form of the haunting ghost. Do situations involving life and death require more respect for the truth and whether or not to hide it?
Hallie Bowns, Adrianne Carter, Kurtis Nelson
Melissa Dutra
ReplyDeletePaul D. lies because he knows that he did something really low. Not only did he cheat on Seth but he did it with someone close to her. Beloved means alot to Seth. So its a double edged knife to the heart. Lying through omission is worse than just plainly lying, because, if Beloved told Seth what happened between her and Paul D., she would feel even more portrayed that he didn't tell her first and be up-front with her. So, I think Paul D. left because he felt like a piece of "do-do" and if he stayed, it would happen again.
If someone knows that someone is getting abused and doesn't help or try to tell someone that can help is really bad. In this situation, lying through omission is more severe than in a case of fidelty. People keep abuse secret from others because, this issue is normally not meant to be open for discussion. Also, the victim(s) feel shame, like they brought it on themselves so they don't want any body to know.
Situations involving life and death, i think do require more respect, because cases like these involve closure for different individuals. To get closure in things in life sometimes involve understanding and having a respect for deaths (in the past).
Jerold Blount
ReplyDeleteOften times with new relationships it does take a while before people become comfortable enough to tell each other the most personal and intimate details of their lives. In Sethe's case, of course what she did to her daughter is something that she would eventually want to tell Paul D, especially once (and if) she decided that she wanted to be in a serious relationship with him, but I can see how she could struggle with telling that part of her life to anyone, so it's a stretch to say that she was lying because she didn't tell him about it.
If someone is cheating on their partner, they're not really ready to be committed, but, finding someone you have a real connection with isn't easy. Obviously if the person cheating doesn't want to be with the other they would just leave them (even though sometimes it's not that simple), especially if they can easily go out and find someone else, but if that other person is special to them they're not going to want to end that relationship, so then hiding it is easier than just breaking it off with that special person or having the willpower to control their libido and not cheat alltogether.
Alexa MacKenzie
ReplyDeletePeople lie to those close to them because a lot of the time it’s easier to lie and keep from fighting. Also, when people know they have done something wrong, especially to someone they love, they don’t want to fess up because they feel bad. Even if you know what you did was wrong it doesn’t make it easier to confess, especially when you know it will drastically change a relationship. In the instance of Sethe not telling Paul D. about when she killed her baby in order to keep her from schoolteacher, that is something that is so personal and crazy that it couldn’t even compare to keeping a secret like infidelity. To me, personal secrets like that are a lot harder to keep because there is so much emotion behind it. When you cheat its usually something you can either work through or move on from but finding out something like that about someone is life changing, and finally admitting and talking about that to someone is also really dramatic. The truth is easy to tell when you have nothing to hide, but everyone has secrets, they may to be a big as Sethe’s or Paul D.’s but confronting people about them is harder than keeping them a lot of the time.
Ms. Otgna
ReplyDeleteThere is an infinite number of reasons cheaters try to hide their actions from their partners. It is possible that people who lie to their partners lie either to protect themselves or another party. If for example, the liar believes that their partner will be completely devastated in discovering the truth, and they still care about that person, they may find it easier to sweep the issue under the rug. Also, the selfish desire to look out for self may encourage some people to lie to maintain a relationship, facing possible termination, that is important to themselves. Paul D and Sethe’s, for instance, is an example of the first scenario. Paul D knows that Sethe has an overbearing love for her children, and because he knew Sethe had gone through great trouble protecting her children from the harm she coud, he knew that she would have been completely devastated after learning of their sexual encounters. I don’t think that his departure is considered lying through omission. Lying through omission allows a liar and cheater to appear to be trustworthy and faithful respectively. People have lots of reasons why they would y to hide abuse in a relationship. Especially in the case of family members, abused individuals may not want to bring shame and negative attention to the family or that family member. Sometime are fearful of the consequences of snitching, especially if the abuser is making threats towards that person. Perhaps the perpetrator has managed to convince the victim that whatever going on is natural but other people might look at it differently.
Natalie Hodges
ReplyDeleteTelling the truth in any relationship form is not, or at least in my opinion, is not relative to any particular situation. Truth is truth and a lie is just that a falsehood of fact. When someone enters into what they and the other individual knows will be a tight kit connection, it should e understood that certain standard of respect, truth being a major one, factor into the over all commitment. With that being said in cases of infidelity where there is forth right knowledge and intent in the wrongful act there is no real concession to be made for why an individual did it and in that way how it may effect whether or not they are honest; there should only be acceptance and admittance to the wrong doing. As far as Beloved is concerned Sethe and Paul D are both in the wrong, Sethe in no way for not telling Paul D that she had killed her child so that he would have bee better equipped to know that he had 'cheated' on Sethe with her reincarnated child but just because she didn't tell him. Paul D is just wrong for cheated period; the fact that he cheated with what is sparingly considered a 'part' of what is Sethe and her life history makes, for me, the primary reason why he left.
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ReplyDeleteKandis Hankerson
ReplyDeleteMany times people stay with or try to hide your actions when they cheat because they usually don't want that person to leave them. Then they take the person back usually because they are insecure. I have seen situations where girls would be abused by their significant other but still stay because they are dependent on that person. Paul D tried to hide it because he did not want Sethe to leave him. So in that situation he leaves so that there will not be heartbreak later on. So yes this is considered lying through omission because he figured if he kept it to himself no one will get hurt. The roles that lying through omission and cheating play are that you might give that poison the story but it is not the whole truth, instead out is bits and pieces. All of that is still cheating it is just you do not get caught as fast. When it comes to abuse, there is lying through omission because given the opportunity to soak up and not doing so is condoning it. I feel that sometimes the victim might be afraid to speak up but they should because otherwise the abuse will continue and it might lead to death. So that is why you should always speak up in situations.
Althea Daley
ReplyDeleteI do feel as though situations involving life and death require more respect for the truth but it is always a case by case basis. There is no concrete answer as to whether or not someone should reveal certain details of their life with a person. However, in the situation with Paul D and Sethe, I feel as though he had a right to know about what Sethe did to Beloved early in their ‘relationship’ and from her own mouth. While this may be something that is extremely difficult for Sethe to speak about and share with people, Paul D had a right to know what he was getting involved with by moving into that haunted house. He deserved some sort of explanation as to why the house was haunted and that would have given him a fair chance in deciding whether or not he wanted to continue to be with Sethe in that manner. Had he known this information he probably would have never stayed let alone cheated on Sethe with Beloved. He was robbed of the chance to make an informed decision about his situation.
Clive Hall
ReplyDeleteI believe that lying is a way of saving someone heartache or pain. As we saw in Tongues of Fire , the truth really does hurt and the way people use "honesty" could be painful to the ones they love the most. I do not think that Paul didn't tell Sethe he cheated out of Spite, I just think that it is not as easy to admit fault as we may hope. Sometimes the truth can end something so important to you, so instead of risking that, we lie. As far as Sethe keeping the secret of her killing her kids from Paul, I would apply the same reasoning. Granted, it is a much bigger extreme than infidelity, but I do feel as though Sethe too deserves the opportunity to feel guilt and regret. I'm pretty sure that it was killing her inside to have to keep such a deep dark secret, but at the end of the day you have to think of the bigger picture and what's going to help you get what you want in the end. Everyone has to be a little selfish sometimes.
Abigail Remillard
ReplyDeleteBeginning a new relationship between two people would involve talking and sharing, although no one wants to be the first one to push past the barriors and break thin ice. In the case with Paul D. and Sethe the two have a lot to share with each other, but are too afraid and maybe weak to spill the beans.
The apparent situation is going to require the two to talk, but Paul D. has a history of running and another problem occurs; he considers himself a man and therefore him admitting a mistake will only be admitting to being weak and will deteriorate his reputation and integrity. Sethe doesn't want to admit to acting like an animal and killing her children, she finally has everything back, the ghost is gone, she has a man around and to love, and her two girls. Denver is happy and Beloved has grown close to her the topic of killing her children just doesn't come up normally and bringing up the topic is really difficult for anyone.
Telling people only parts of the whole story constitutes as lying to most people, especially if you're doing it to someone that you really care about/love. You don't want to hurt your significant other or whomever, but we all know that in reality the longer you wait it just hurts them more, and just delays your feelings. You only prove that you are not able to face your fears and proves that you are a coward. Yes, I have done this not pointing fingers, you only feel guilt and until you talk about it you can feel it inside you, balling up. This is lying through omission.
Paul D. eventually decides to leave and this turns out to solve nothing. He's hiding behind the doorway to escape. Not that Paul D. does not respect Sethe but the guilt and commitment involved with crossing that bridge could just be to much for him to handle. Playing into the role that the respect does not go away, but neither does the situation. Beloved is techniqually dead so the need for the truth in reality would not require more of a perserverance for the truth except that Beloved come back to life in a form of a ghost. This changes the situation and the need to talk about everything going on between Beloved, Sethe, and Paul D. becomes greater and more important.
In a new relationship it is often difficult to disclose all the past skeletons in one’s closet. Sethe didn’t tell Paul D the truth because she knew what his reaction would be and frankly didn’t have the time to. Paul D provided her with the emotional security that was absent from her life for years and she wasn’t going to risk that by telling him her secret. Paul D, never asked her, and she probably had a “Don’t ask, don’t tell policy”. If he really wanted to know the he would have asked her why the people in her town treat her the way they did because he wasn’t oblivious to the fact that Sethe got sneered at. People lie to protect themselves and others.
ReplyDeleteIf I know my friend is in an abusive relationship I am contacting the police and her family. I know that if I was in that situation all though I would tell my friend to mind her business I would want her to contact someone. Another thing is that I cannot live with guilt. I rather have contacted the police and deal with the outcome of that than not do anything and witness my friend get seriously injured or killed.
Ashlee Thompson
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I just wanna say that lying in any case is wrong and can’t be justified. However I can see why someone would think it would be an acceptable option. I mean no one wants to see a loved one or someone they care about hurt because of their actions; or even so that no one wants to get in trouble for something they did. Both ways a lie is very destructive and I think it can lead to a lot more hurt then the initial truth would have caused. Once you tell a lie, you have to cover that lie with a lie then cover that lie with a lie and pretty soon you’ll have a wall of lies sitting in front of you and you won’t even know what the truth is. And yes not telling the whole truth is a lie because your misleading the person just as if you told a complete lie. I can agree with the fact that the person didn’t ask who you were with while you were at Ken’s house but it’s still lying or misleading to let Teresa think that Barbie wasn’t over there with you. So omitting truth is still lying.
Individuals lie for many different reasons: to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment and more often with the intentions to deceive others. I believe that to maintain a healthy relationship with those close to you, you should be honest with them but sometimes "the truth" is even more painful than that little white lie.
ReplyDeleteIn the situation with Paul D and Sethe, I feel as though Sethe should have told him in the beginning when he agreed to stay in her home. I understand that she may have needed some time to open up to him about it but if she felt comfortable enough to lay down and have sex with him she could have told him about the death of her child so that it wouldn't have come as such a shock to him. Paul D wasn't so innocent himself so I personally don't understand how he could fault Sethe for not being honest with him when he wasn't completely honest with her. As far as situations involving life or death requiring more respect I think thats a little difficult to say because everyone problems aren't the same and some peoples reactions to life and death are totally different.
Jasmin Faust
ReplyDeleteDepending on the situation revealing the truth is not always the "best" thing to do. Not saying that lying or hiding the truth justifies a situation. I just don't feel as though Sethe was wrong about not revealing to Paul D about her situation with her child Beloved. Sometimes there is a trust factor that comes with informing people on certain situations that have occurred in your life. In a situation like that, when would it be exactly th right time? Now on the other hand Paul D had sexual relations with Beloved and he hid that from Sethe that was very wrong. I guess it all depends on the situation because knowing the truth sometimes hurts the most. Not everyone can handle the truth nor cope with it. That's why its always best to just be straight forward with people. I was always taught that you tell your side before anyone else can beat you to it, because that only worsens a situation.
Nathaniel Watson
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to tell a child to lie. You don't have to tell a child to do wrong, rather it is in our nature. Almost a survival technique, or a self preservation technique. Whereas the prehistoric man had to do things such as hunt and kill to avoid death, a child's equivalent to death (the worst possible situation) would be to get in trouble with a parent. And so, to avoid this absolution, this terrible possibility, a child will lie to cover his/her wrongdoing. and this notion pervades into the maturer years as well, the concept of lying for the sake of self preservation, or preservation of a comfortable position in life. These days, lying has become a much more socially acceptable thing. Personally, I'm not too fond of it, but it is reflective of the somewhat lowering standards of morality in trade off for higher levels of individuality and moral ambiguity. People say things such as "theres nothing wrong with a little white lie" and "sometimes you have to lie to get what you want". I'm in no position to judge anyone for lying seeing as how I've lied for the same reasons, but i think the social acceptance of it and de-sentitizing to it is sort of detrimental to society.
Laura Turner
ReplyDeleteSometimes not telling the truth is, in essence, as bad as a lie itself. In both cases the person is consciously withholding a vital piece of information that could potentially harm the oblivious person this entire situation is in regards to.
In the case of Beloved, Sethe probably should have mentioned that she was so incredibly traumatized; however, I can see why it would be hard to just bring up casually in conversation that you murdered your daughter. And that the spirit of Beloved now has physically manifested itself as the young woman...who calls herself Beloved.
In addition to withholding the truth as well as straight up lying, white lies are also harmful. For example, telling someone that they look great while, in truth, they look like something the cat dragged in, can be harmful because they will either figure out later and be very mad, or they will be made fun of and hurt because of it later.
Bell Hooks talks about truth telling as something that can be harmful and vengeful in itself because occasionally “telling the truth” is actually just pointing out means observances intended to make the recipient self conscious, scared, paranoid, or just upset about their life in general. Truth telling can, at times in this way, be more harmful to the overall healing process and well-being of women than spiteful falsehoods. This is why bell hooks (she spells her name in the lower case) classifies this as “tongues of fire.” Women should not bring each other down when it’s already so hard to rise above.
I do not think that the situations between Paul D and Sethe in these events is technically "lying." Paul D was not having lustful thoughts about Beloved, what happened between them he said was something that he felt she was making him do so in my eyes, that was something beyond his control. He wanted to tell Sethe but he could not find it within himself to do so. Being that at the time, Sethe did not know who Beloved really was i think that the situation could have escalated to Beloved hurting them because she was upset with Paul D for "snitching." As far as Sethe situation with killing Beloved, like Kendra mentioned in class, in her eyes, she did nothing wrong. She was protecting her children from slavery so I am pretty sure it did not cross her mind to just tell Paul D. He left because it was too much mental trauma that he was going through while being there so he must leave. Beloved had opened up his "rusted tin can" and he finds out that the woman that he has been sleeping with killed her daughter and that daughter had came back in another form and he had slept with her. I am pretty sure that all those events could possibly make someone lose their mind.
ReplyDeleteBy "omitting" information, I think that it becomes a safety net for the person. Sometimes people do not need to know EVERYTHING. In some instances, people may keep information from another person because they may feel embarrassed or like they do not need to know that piece of information until they are ready to mention it. Its not lying its just a safety net. Also, I was taught to never tell everything in a relationship because that person could also use that information against you to possibly hurt you more. But on the flip side, I think that it hurts more hearing something from someone else rather than from the person that you are with. When you find out before you already formulate in your mind your opinion of the situation and do not take into consideration the persons story.
Yet, lying just to lie is something that should not be done. It only digs a hold deeper that you may not can get yourself out of. It is also harder to remember a bunch of lies than one single truth. and those lies could hurt more than they could help.